An in depth dive into the mind of Creative Director, Eric Sahrmann. His work philosophies, experience, and what he brings to the DSM creative community.
Interviewer: All right. Tell me what was the most interesting project you’ve done?
Eric: That is a good question. One project?
One that stands out. It can be good or bad.
There’s one that stands out. Its the one I won a CLIO for, the Strong Babies because I got a lot of notoriety. It's an interesting photo shoot because
the client came to us like, "Guys, I've got these sketches. No idea how it's going to work." The client came to us to create these babies CG because
these babies were, originally three concepts. It was the push up baby, the karate baby, and then a weight lifting baby The client came to us and was
like, "How do we do this?" We had these brainstorming sessions and came to the conclusion that photography and retouching would be the way to do it
because skin is a very hard thing to do in CG and make look real. Skin and hair, the really organic things.
We knew doing a baby in CG, up close where you're staring at all the skin, just wasn't going to fly so we knew we had to capture a lot of it on camera.
I think it was a two week long shoot from casting to shooting. We cast ten babies per shot. The casting sessions were insane with all these moms bringing
in their babies. The shoot went off incredibly well. I was shooting on a small set in a room to make sure these babies wouldn't be distracted. The
crew was as small as possible. I had the composer there working right with me. I'd capture something in camera and he'd start placing it. We slowly
started building off these babies and then by the end of the shoot, we had three pieces made out of probably thirty babies that ended up working real
nice.
That campaign ended up winning a CLIO that year. It got a lot of notoriety and it went on from that. The media picked it up, I think it was one of those
like a Buzzfeed. I also talked with Good Morning America and all sorts of people. There was an agent out of LA that wanted me to do a whole TV show,
a reality show about how I shoot babies. It ended up being just really strange.
Were you concerned that you were going to become that baby guy?
Yeah. When these people learned that I wasn't an exclusive baby shooter, they were shocked like, "Oh my gosh. You do other stuff?" I really only shot babies
once.
Is that true? Do you have to be specialized to be successful or is that more in people's minds?
I think that's in minds. You get a lot of these art directors that say for example "We need to see something in your portfolio of a lady in a red dress."
If someone has that in their portfolio it means the idea is not that original anymore. Basically, you need to know your craft. Doing things you have
never done before is what being creative is all about. An artist is great because he has mastered the tools not because he has painted a particular
picture before.
How important is it in advertising and marketing to be original?
You have to stand out. There's so much saturation in the market. You need to have something that stands out whether it's a capability, whether it's a look,
whether it's a story. Being different is what stands out, what gets noticed. If you don't get noticed then you have no chance to tell your story.
Back when you were working a lot with the agencies, who were some of the big name art directors, big name agencies?
The big agencies in Chicago that were always around were the Leo Burnetts, the BBDOs, and FCBs. Those were massive machines that had so many levels of
creative. Those were sometimes not the best jobs to be involved with because of all the minutiae and red tape you had to cut through. There were some
small agencies that we worked with that were great because we wouldn't have all these levels to go through. They had these really creative people that
would have so much leeway and really let you be creative on your own.
What would you say the biggest thing that you learned from working with the agencies on some of these pretty large accounts?
Yeah. I would say that's an interesting question. I guess you have to be diplomatic. I guess that's the biggest thing because these directors and creative
directors and copywriters would have so much on their shoulders and they didn't just want a pair of hands to do what they wanted. They were a lot of
times just dealing with their client's expectations. We need somebody to pull out this imagery and sometimes it's so hard for me to think about everything,
so it was great for them to go somewhere. "Listen guys. I'll take care of it. I'll help you." Their clients would come to the shoots making all these
demands like, "I want to see this. I want to see that."
You had to be diplomatic. Listen to what their clients say and listen to what your client's saying and help the shoot progress without being all frazzled.
If we're just being diplomatic it's like, "All right guys. Let's work together. Let's make this look like a nice campaign for you without all these
pitfalls that come along with these big budget shoots." The biggest thing when you saw a client would bring his client and you'd see fifteen people
walk through the door. You knew it was going to an interesting day, but you just need to know how to work with all those people just make everybody
feel comfortable and just make everybody feel like they were getting out of the shoot what they wanted even though really it's the art director is
the only person you needed to listen to because that was our client.
It's creating things you've never done before are the things that stand out.
I also think it's crucial to have your ear to the ground with what's happening in pop culture as far as what the looks are. They’re s trends that always
happen in the visual industry whether it's a look that's popular that starts with cinema and it kind of goes down to advertising. You have to know
that and you have to be able to bring that to the table. If you shoot the same way for two years in a row, you're behind the curve already. You need
to stay current with what the younger people are looking at, what's popular, so you can bring that to the advertising that you can make your stuff
current. There's nothing worse than shooting something that looks like you did it five years ago and it just doesn't look good anymore even though
it was beautiful back then. Things changed. Looks changed.
You really have to be tied in to what’s current. Hollywood. That really is the gold standard of what looks are. Nowadays getting on Youtube and stuff like
that you get an idea, but you really have to know in pop culture what looks good. Music videos. Those are different techniques. You always have to
stay current even though you hate some of the music. It's silly to say, but you have to know what the kids are into. That's what's popular. That's
what looks cool.
How would you answer when people say, "Well, I don't want to spend any money. I can just do this with my iPhone. Why should I spend a lot of money for a professional to do this work for me?"
The professional must be successful every time. There's so much that somebody that sees on Vimeo or Youtube. There are some beautiful things that were
shot single camera. Just some guy out there, but in order for it to look like what the client's expectations are, there's a team of ten to fifteen
behind the camera. It's that production value and production costs that go into something that make that look high budget even though you may not have
a high budget. You need people behind you doing stuff. You need a guy doing sound that knows what he's doing. It's down to the PAs. You need that stuff
behind you. You need the set to feel right. You need the location to feel right in order to get the best performance out of some people. Any plain
Joe can go out with a camera and shoot an interview, but to have the right look, to convey the right message you need that experience.
Eric, why did you come to Des Moines?
We had spent 20 years in Chicago, it was a long time. We decided to come to Des Moines after we had our first child. We felt for us, Chicago wasn't necessarily
the place we wanted to be raising a kid. We had some family connections here in Des Moines so the next big question was, "Well, what do we for work
if we’re moving?" I had always been familiar with Applied Art, through family, and they were definitely doing stuff that I wanted to do. It felt like
that was a place that I would fit nicely. I came and talked with the guys and made it work.
What's your creative approach? A lot of people think this is magic, some magic fairy dust happens, and there's this great idea.
That's a good question. To me, if I'm hearing a concept or if I'm hearing a pitch from something, the first thought, it's almost silly to say, but the
first thought that comes into my head about what it looks like is usually the right thought. It's usually the right look. I say the creative approach
is to not over think it, to be fun with it, to be free with it. If you're, again, going back to the lady in the red dress or something like that, whatever
pops in your head first. You hear a client saying, "I want to shoot a lady in a red dress." What you see in your mind's eye originally is usually your
best thought. Maybe it's your first thought like, "Wow. That's going to look cool." Not to sit there and overthink it, but let the creativity kind
of blossom from that. Don't sit there and hammer something. Just almost be free with it, to not think about it too much. Really let it blossom from
what your first thought was.
A lot of times do you find your first thought is the expected thought? How do you get beyond that to something that's really fresh and unique?
Maybe it comes down to keeping that first thought in mind, but researching it, building on it. How to make that look better. What are different ways...
Not going off in a thousand different directions with your first thought, but keeping that first thought in mind, how do you do that? How do you make
that better? Is there a technique to do that better? Is there a look to do that better? Is there somebody that can help me make that look better? I
think that's the way to go about that.
Good creative is hard work.
What's the most challenging part in the creative process?
The most challenging part. Good question. The most challenging part of the creative process in the real world to be honest would be restrictions, I think.
Not necessarily on how you're going to do something, but if there's budgetary restrictions. This would really be nice if we could do this and being
told no or being told that you can't get that certain actor you wanted. Those are the hurdles that you're always going to deal with in every production.
For instance, something like a drone shot would make the campaign look so much nicer, but you can't do it because you're close to an airport or something
like that. Or anytime you've got this creative idea and it's really getting bigger and this is going to be cool, it's going to be cool and somebody's
hammering you, "No. We can't do that." That's tough, but I think there's an expectation that that's always going to happen and you have to get through
that. I think that's one of the things that you always have to be prepared for, but I think that's the top part.
You don't want to limit your thinking, but you realize that a lot of the creativity is solving those problems.
Absolutely.
What would you tell clients, if you were to give clients advice, how to get better creative product when working with you? What kind of things can they do to ensure that they get better end results?
I think they have to ultimately trust you. Again, the worst thing would be a client that's too involved and doesn't trust you. . That restricts you because
you're always thinking in the back of your mind that this person is second guessing what you're doing. I think you have to stay true to your course.
There’s an interesting story that you may or may not have heard before. There was some big advertising convention and they invited Tony Kaye, who is a world famous director to give the keynote speech. They flew him 10,000 miles, all the way to San Francisco give to give the speech He walked up on the stage and leaned over the microphone and just said one word, "Trust" and then walked off.
It's brilliant because it totally left you focused on his message and he totally hit the mark, didn't he? That trust is so important.
Yeah. Definitely.... Trust, to know he has your back. He knows what he's doing. It's going to look good. Just trust me.
What's your obligation to the client?
The obligation to the client is to follow through on that trust. You need to put all of your effort, no matter what your restrictions may be, into giving
them the best final product. That's ultimately why they trust you and if you don't, they're not going to trust you again and that client will never
be seen again.
Tell me about becoming a creative director?
Again, you kind of get that freedom, which is nice. Basically, you know I was creative director on a lot of shoots for Bose. You get a chance to chase
what's in your mind's eye like, what I was talking about earlier, like what your first thought is. You get a chance. What you can do as a creative
director is foster that and make sure that eventually comes through. You can tell other people what the idea is, help them learn, but it's nice to
have ... It gives you a better opportunity to follow things through.,. Not just be a little part in a process, but to oversee that process to make
sure that the final outcome is something that you're proud of. It's more responsibility, but it's more freedom in a way because you're not really stifled
by going up the ladder with different ideas. You can help your idea, what you think, what you see, become the final piece.
Give me a definition. What's a creative director?
I see it as somebody that's a bouncing board for other ideas. Other people with ideas, can come to you. Hopefully they can come to you freely and let you
know what they think. Let you know how they see things happening. You absorb all that. It's almost like a creative sponge, to hear everything and absorb
it all , and then put everything together to make it work. The creative director shouldn't talk that much; shouldn't be that loud person. The most
important thing is really to listen to what other people say, other ideas.
On a project, you have a lot of ideas, but not all of them are going to align. In my opinion, part of what a creative director or director does is decide which ones enhance it. Which ideas give it focus. Which ideas to do and more importantly what not to do. How do you feel about that?
That's true. Not every idea that people are going to come to you with is going to be a good idea. I think that part of the job is to realize that. Some
ideas are going to be dumb. Some ideas are going to be brilliant, so almost weeding through those. , Maybe your editor or your colorist might have
said something in a meeting. The creative director's job is to pick up on those ideas and remember them, and to follow that through to the end.
How important is vision? Where does that come from?
It's super important. Without the vision, you're just chasing your tail really. It sucks to show up at any kind of shoot without a creative vision going
in. Ultimately you're thinking it may be this, it may be that. Having a vision going in, keeping your eye on that target to know what you're going
after makes everything better. Not necessarily easier, but everything better in the end. What's going to come out is going to show that.
That really speaks to the fact that the really awesome work gets done in pre-production.
Pre-production. Absolutely. Actual shooting is not even half the battle. You have to have the right places and the right pieces in place in order for it
to fall together. There's nothing worse than getting to a location or getting to a set and something wasn't thought through. . Something wasn't talked
about. In the end it really shows in the finished piece.
You've shot in New York. You've shot in LA. Where is the most interesting place you’ve shot?
I don't know if it's for better or for worse, but I guess probably New York City just because of the first couple of times going there and all the union
guys and what's expected in New York, it really is a whole different level of shoot to where everybody there has one small job. It's just a strange
experience. It's very hustle bustle. These strange studios and places. It's interesting because of the talent you get in New York City as far as models
and actresses or actors is phenomenal. It's fun because they are so good, but it's a strange place.
What industries were you working in? Were you working in advertising and marketing? What genres?
For the past twenty years it's almost exclusively advertising. In Chicago there's a lot of huge, ad agencies, so those were our main clients. They would
give you your pitch. You do your treatment on what you're going to do. They bid you on a triple bid. You'd win that and you'd end up working with art
directors. They would basically direct your shoot, which was fine in a way if you guys melded together. You know you needed that creative mind from
the agency to tell you what they originally pitched to the client.
I would say ninety percent were ad agencies and then the industry changed a little bit to working straight with businesses. For the past five or so years
it was a lot more of the big businesses; the marketing armor of those companies coming to us. It was interesting because it took out that middle man
a little bit and we were able to work with the bigger companies directly. You were acting more as the art director, as the creative director, feeling
out what they needed. They'd give you the overall scope of the job and then you would take that and create the imagery around it, which is nice.
As you started working directly with these marketing departments. How was that different than the agencies?
I guess a lot of times they were looking to you to help create their campaign. I would say for instance Bose headphones is a good case. They needed in
store signage for something. "Well we have these headphones. We don't know what to do." We'll figure out a way to create this campaign for you. We
can do this in store signage. We'll also figure out lifestyle images that can go in magazines, and online.
Tell me a little bit about your background.
I went to school, originally, for photojournalism, at the University of Kansas and was the head of photojournalism, for four years there. We just covered
all news, all sports, which was a big thing in Kansas, especially the basketball team. I graduated at a weird time when newspapers were headed downhill,
as far as staff positions.
I graduated from there with a degree in photojournalism and I did, I think, probably four or five unpaid internships at different newspapers. It was great
experience, but career-wise, I couldn’t get by making $20,000 a year being on call 24 hours a day. I happened to overhear a conversation about this
guy that's a commercial photographer in Kansas City that was offering internships. Again, another unpaid internship, so I was a little bit weary, but
this guy's name was Nick Vedros. He was a very successful commercial photographer in the '90s and early 2000s. He let me come on board there and I
ended up being there for about nine months. He got me into the commercial world of photography and what he could do and how exciting it could be. Something
in photojournalism that we never dealt with too much was the studio and the lighting and stuff like that.
Once I got into the studio and saw what he could do with lighting and what he could do just working with a model and some of the stuff he'd come out with.
It really got me and I was just hooked from there.
He helped groom what I wanted to do, which was interesting commercial stuff. After that he sat me down and he said, "You know you have to get out of Kansas
City if you want to do this professionally and in a big way”. He had some connections in Chicago and gave me a list of all these people to call once
I got there. I was new to Chicago and I was twenty-one and just started cold calling people and assisted for probably two or three years just around
Chicago, different photographers. Just getting my surroundings, kind of knowing different clients, different agencies to work with and then sort of
shoot on my own. I freelanced a lot for a place called Alter Image.
They were doing some exciting stuff that was a step above just regular photography. They were doing a lot of composing at the time which nowadays it's
second hand like, "Of course you composite a photo into a background”. back then it wasn't that big of a thing. I shot there for a long time and then
they started incorporating CG into their stuff, which is another exciting thing. CG and photography go hand in hand really, so basically shooting a
person in a studio and then putting them in this crazy background that was all CG and that's really cool. I did that for probably, fifteen years. We
really got busy and really successful for a long time.
Commercial photography started to get more and more, saturated with photographers, so budgets started going down and photography wasn't really kicking
as much as it use to, so I switched over to video and more of the visual effects and CG stuff. I spent four years as director of photography at Alter.
Basically, that involved video and still shooting and then combining that visual effects wise into a project. That's when I was sitting by a computer
and doing lighting and CG, which is amazing and fun, but I didn't really dig just sitting on my butt all day.
What was making a transition into media like coming from the still background?
It's interesting because the photo and video world started melding together after the Canon 5D came out. I was like, "Oh wow. You can make great video
with a still camera." That kind of opened up everybody's eyes. It wasn't as complicated as a Hollywood movie. That went down the line to the clients,
so the clients were like, "Let's do some video," That's when it switched over to doing more of the video stuff. A lot of the campaigns were photo and
video together because they wanted that cohesive look between the two. You did a campaign.
The video stuff was always super interesting, especially the higher budgets work that needs more people. That's the kind of work we started falling into,
which was what we wanted to do.
The transition, I'd say, was pretty easy because it's a lot of the same techniques as far as lighting, as far as interacting with your model/actor, it
all goes hand in hand. Coming from a photography background, you understand lighting almost better in a way because if you look at a still photo, that
light is so important because it doesn’t change. . With video, the camera is moving around and sometimes lighting isn't quite as crucial but if you
bring a photographer's eye to video, I think those two worlds come together nicely in the finished product.
Who would be your mentor?
My father had camera equipment when I was growing up. That's where I originally picked up these old film cameras with these big lenses and that's kind
of where I fell in love with it. I think my mentor would be Nick Vedros because he was able to show me that I could do this for a living. Do well for
a living. He just really brought hope that what I wanted to do was something that I could do. He was a very helpful person; very nice person.. I would
say yeah. Nick Vedros.
What's your leadership philosophy?
Leadership philosophy is not be overbearing, I think. To lead quietly, but not necessarily lead by example, but let people do what they're doing. Maybe
just kind of gently nudge in a certain direction. There's nothing worse than being stifled by somebody that's a creative director or somebody that
is technically over you and what their position is. Hear people out. You've got to listen to people. The creative director or anybody in the creative
industry, the worst thing they could do is not listen. Somebody has an idea and you're like, "No. My idea is going to be the way." You pigeon hole
yourself into only what's in your mind's eye. Creativity is about the whole not necessarily about one person's single vision. I think you need to listen
to anybody on set. If somebody has an idea about something, listen to it. Don't just say, "Shut up. You're not supposed to be talking."
What would you do if you could do something else?
I'd be a meteorologist, I think. Which is great about being in Iowa, too because you can see more of the sky. You can see storms move in. Something fascinates
me about storms or the clouds. I don't know what it is. If I went back to school it would be to work for the National Weather Service.
Is that because photographers are so much at the mercy of the weather?
Could be. I've looked at a lot of radars in my life! I think watching a storm move in and that peaceful five minutes before it starts raining is probably
the best nature feeling that anybody can get.
What are your words to live by?
Jeez. I never thought of that one before. Words to live by. I guess I would say my first thought that came to mind was keep learning. That's the one thing
I never want to just be comfortable that I've done stuff and I just sit there and this is what I do. I would love to learn audio. Learn different software
programs because that's basically what our industry's becoming is a lot of software, so just keep learning. There's so many videos, so many tutorials
out there to do stuff. It's easier now more than ever to just keep learning. You don't have to necessarily sit in a classroom or go to a college to
learn stuff. I think stay current. Keep learning.
As a matter of fact, a lot of the stuff you have to learn in college is just happening now, right? Things are moving too fast for colleges.
Yeah. Looking back at my college experience it was during the digital camera revolution. I was at the college newspaper. We were still shooting film, but
you wanted so much to get, I think it was the Canon 1D at the time or something like that. I just really wanted to get that camera. Nope can't do it.
All these other people are progressing in the digital and you see what's happening, but you're stuck in film. Colleges and stuff like that, they just
get really passed by with the professional industry.
What can Iowa do to attract more people like you?
When people talk about Iowa, you hear it's always farms. It's almost like simple minded. You hear that a lot. You listen to radio shows or TV shows and
a lot of times Iowa is the butt of a joke or those Midwesterners, corn fed fat people that sit there and do nothing.
The creativity that is here is on par with any place that I've been. I did a lot of shooting in New York and LA. It's all the same people. Just living
in different places. I think you keep up that creativity. The people here are just as creative as those people. They live in Iowa and that's usually
a better frame of life sometimes, I think here. I think you've just gotta keep pushing the creativity and stay current with what you do see and make
sure that people aren't coming to Iowa thinking, "Uhh." Come to Iowa and be proud that you're in Iowa. Be proud, but do something about it. Make what's
coming out of you just as impressive as anywhere else.